Writing Excuses Transcripts

Writing Excuses 20.52: 2025 End-of-Year Wrap Up

From https://writingexcuses.com/20-52-2025-end-of-year-wrap-up

[Sorry, no key points, because you really need to read the WHOLE thing! From Dan's change to a guest star, through the predictions of June to the actual achievements of December, just read it and enjoy the holidays!]

[Season 20, Episode 52]

[Howard] In September, 2026, Writing Excuses will host an in-person writing retreat aboard Voyager of the Seas, where attendees can learn their craft and connect with fellow writers for a week along the coasts of Canada and Alaska. You can learn more at writingexcuses.com/retreats. But I'd like to tell you about our scholarships. Scholarships are available. Applications are due by December 31st, 2025. Visit www.writingexcuses.com/scholarships. But don't delay, the deadline is coming right up. Recipients of these scholarships, the Writer of Color scholarship or the Out of Excuses scholarship for writers with financial need will receive full retreat tuition as well as travel assistance for our 2026 Alaskan cruise. Please, share this post with the writers in your life. The rules and application instructions are posted at www.writingexcuses.com/scholarships. And all scholarship applications are due by December 31st of 2025. Our scholarship program has introduced us to some outstanding writers and we're excited to meet this year's recipients.

[Mary Robinette] This episode of Writing Excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons, and friends. If you would like to learn how to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/writingexcuses.

[Season 20, Episode 52]

[Mary Robinette] This is Writing Excuses.

[DongWon] 2025 end-of-year wrap up.

[Mary Robinette] I'm Mary Robinette.

[DongWon] I'm DongWon.

[Dan] I'm Dan.

[Erin] I'm Erin.

[Howard] And I'm Howard.

[Mary Robinette]And we have come to the end of our 20th season, which is just wild.

[yay!]

[Mary Robinette] We've also come to the end of 2025, and this episode is going to be longer. We're going to do this episode in three parts, because the other thing that we have come to the end of, which we are going to start with, is Dan's time with us as a full-time core host.

[Dan] Yes. I am stepping away from the show. We've been doing this... It's our 20th season, but I believe 17 or 18 years in total since Brandon, Howard, and I started this way back in the day. And I feel like the time has come. I still love the show, and I love all of you, and I'm excited to see it continue. I'm excited to come back for various episodes and events and stuff. But, yeah. Stepping away as a full core host.

[Mary Robinette] And this was... When Dan let us know... I should let you know that we are recording this in June of 2025. And we have known for a couple of months now. And when Dan let us know, I was so upset, I was so sad, that I, like, couldn't actually answer him, and I'm like... Oh, you need to say something right now to this man.

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] But, we've... It also means that we've had a lot of time to think and reflect about how we want to proceed and the ways of it. And so rather than just doing an announcement of Dan's leaving, we wanted to say with you...

[Dan] Finally!

[Mary Robinette] Thanks, Dan.

[laughter]

[Mary Robinette] I told you not to talk about those marshmallows ever again.

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] But we thought that we would talk to you about why Dan is leaving, especially because we began this year by talking about some of the things that Dan had been facing and that he was [garbled struggling?] with this all year, which was great. But what has changed? And so I'm going to kind of frame this with something, a conversation that I had with my agent, which is that he and I were talking about the fact that I was working very hard all of my career to turn down the gigs I didn't want to do. And he said, well, now you're at a point where you have to make a decision about turning down the gigs you do want to do. And that was a thing that came up when we were talking with Dan.

[Dan] Yeah. That's really where I was this spring. To start the story a little earlier, this is something I've been thinking about for a while, but as we have said ourselves on this show before, when you are in the depths of a bad depressive episode, that's not a good time to make major decisions. That was the very first thing that my therapist told me when I started going to see a therapist. And so we reached a point, and I can't remember if it was two or three years ago, where I told the rest of the cast that I had to step away temporarily, because if I didn't, I would quit. And I didn't want to quit. And that's just because the depression... And at that point, much more so, the anxiety were just too much. Stuff that I love immensely, like recording with this group of people, would give me horrible panic attacks. And we had a recording retreat, and I don't remember if I told you at that retreat in Austin, or if it was later when we got home, that it was just too much for me. And I had to step away and give myself time. And so I was very spotty for a while.

[Mary Robinette] Yeah.

[Dan] But I knew I didn't want to make that decision yet. And then earlier this year, in March, I finally found a med schedule that worked for me. The right medicines, the right treatments, the right everything. And I have been feeling fantastic ever since. And that after two or three weeks of that fantastic feeling, I thought, yay, I can come back to the show now, and this will be great. And then I thought, wait a minute. This is the time when I'm supposed to make the major decisions. And I had to think about where I was in my career, what I am looking to do, what kinds of platforms and outlets do I want to focus on? And really, I felt like it was time for me to move on. And the reason I feel like I am able to move on right now is because we've spent these last few years building the show into a new and exciting thing. And I love what it is and it is in very good hands, and I love all of these folks, and so it really felt like I was able to leave it in their capable care, and to move on to a new phase of my career.

[Mary Robinette] And I have to say, for me, because I was... I was not an original host. I came in in season 6. And so the idea of doing the podcast without Dan was scary. Because it... I like talking to you. But I also know that I like... At this point, the new team has jelled, and we... Because of the time you had to take a step back, I knew how we worked as a four-person podcast. And there are times, honestly, when having five people is awkward. That's one of the reasons our episodes tend to run longer. But it is also one of the things that I love about this is that you are leaving at a point where you still love the podcast.

[Dan] Yeah.

[Mary Robinette] You aren't leaving at a point... Because it's just become a thing that you can't handle, that you don't like.

[Dan] Yeah. Yeah. Which was important for me.

[DongWon] And we didn't design this season, in terms of curriculum, with this in mind. Right? You told us after we had begun recording episodes for this, and sort of knew what we were up to, but it ended up working out, because we spent a lot of this year talking about our own individual processes, our career development, and some of the different things about how we structure our business and how we structure our lives. And so it's been really useful to sort of be, like, going through that conversation together about, like, oh, here's how I think about process, here's how I think about managing my time, and picking my projects and building my career. And hearing from you sort of where you're at in all these different ways, I can sort of see all the ways in which you continue to grow and push yourself, and figuring out what fits in your life right now is sort of the question that you need to answer, as all writers sort of need to answer, with the things they're doing other than just writing their novels.

[Erin] I just think, like, I will be sad, and I am sad, I should probably be sad right now, but I'm more, like, super psyched and here's why.

[laughter]

[Erin] I can't wait to get rid of you... No!

[go on, get...]

[Erin] No, because like thinking about your episode where you were talking about, between the sort of business episode and the episode about your process, and thinking about like all the things you said about your career in the past...

[yeah]

[Erin] I think one of the things that I know, like, from an outside perspective about depression and anxiety is they keep you in the moment, they keep you dealing with the present moment, and they sometimes steal your ability to look forward and to think about where am I going? Where do I want to go? What is the future that I see? And seeing you talk about here's where I want my career to go, here's what I'm planning for, here's what I'm excited for, makes me so excited for you to have that. Like, and to see you feeling like you're looking forward, and I'm like whatever you're looking at... Like, I just want to be standing, looking at it with you, and, like, cheering you on in whatever form it is. And so I'm, like, so thrilled more than anything else, like, just to, like, be there to be, like, I was at the moment when Dan was like, I'm looking at this next thing and I can be, like...

[yeah]

[Erin] Yay, cheering it on and, like, waving from the...

[yeah]

[Erin] Shore as you're, like, [garbled] ship sails.

[Dan] Well, thank you very much.

[Erin] I don't know...

[Mary Robinette] I would echo that, because I... Like, I had the initial extremely selfish response. But then after that, especially being here at the recording retreat where you were able to share things with us which we can't share with the listeners, it is exciting to see what happens next. Some of which I know specifically, and some things we aren't going to talk about. But the thing about the podcast that I think our listeners don't understand is that it takes a cognitive load.

[yeah]

[Mary Robinette] It's something that we've actually all been talking about, of how to shift the cognitive load of the podcast, because it's not just the recording, but there's also all of the planning of the curriculum, there's meetings about what direction we want to go, what additional business things we want to do. You've heard us talking about the craft book. That's another piece of cognitive load. And so knowing that you're going to free up that space, there's a lot of opportunity there.

[Dan] Yeah, it's exciting. I thought a lot about what will I be sad to leave behind, and what am I excited to move on to. And in some ways, I keep thinking of myself as a grandpa of the show.

[Chuckles]

[Dan] Rather than a dad of the show. I am excited that the show will still be there, and then I'll get to play with it sometimes, but then I can give it back to you...

[laughter]

[Dan] And I don't have to change its diapers.

[yeah]

[Howard] When we talked about Charlie Jane Anders book, All the Birds in the Sky, one of the things that I loved about it was the aspect of the magic system where in order for certain spells to work, someone has to give something up. And often they would agree to give something up without realizing that what they were going to give up was precious to them. And I've found several times in my own life, most notably when I moved from record production to cartooning back 8 years before the podcast began, I consciously made the decision to give away all of my recording equipment. Keyboards, tone generators, it was $20,000 worth of equipment at full retail. Gave it away, because I know if I try and do both, I'll fail at both. I need to give up something I love in order to have something that I want to love next. And I get that sense from you. You are giving up something that you love in order to move into something that you are ready to love more.

[Dan] Yeah. And I think that that's pretty much the way I look at it too. One thing I do want to point out... One of the things I got from Writing Excuses that I don't get from some of the other things I'm working on right now is the ability to give back to the writing community. And that is kind of the last thing I was really clinging to. I love being able to give back, to give advice, and to help other aspiring writers. And the rest of the hosts have very graciously offered me the chance to keep doing that. I have been running, at least in part, the scholarship program that we do for our Writing Excuses events and retreats, and I still get to do that. So I will still have a hand in that aspect of the show which is really important to me. So, that's great.

[Mary Robinette] And, also, you are... You're moving back... You're moving into... It's less that you're stepping back from the podcast and more just stepping into a different role. Because you're going to be, like DongWon and Erin were before they became core hosts, they were series regulars. So, like, we already know that you're going to be back next season, and for a very special episode.

[Chuckles]

[Dan] The one where I tried drugs at school?

[laughter]

[Dan] No, it's exactly like that. I keep thinking of, like, Saturday Night Live writers. For so long Colin Joss and Michael Che were the head writers, the co-head writers of the show, and then they stepped back, because they wanted to do something else. They're still on the show, they're still writing skits, but they don't have the same responsibilities anymore.

[Mary Robinette] Yeah.

[Dan] So, I'm moving from featured player to guest star, I guess.

[Mary Robinette] Yeah. Yeah.

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] Our regular guest star.

[Erin] You will be in the [garbled]

[laughter]

[Mary Robinette] Well, speaking of responsibilities, it is our responsibility to take a little break, and then we will come back and we'll talk about your end-of-the-year wrap up, dear listener.

[Mary Robinette] So, this is... Welcome back... The end of 2025. So we want to talk about kind of the way we feel like the year has ended. What we're going to do is that we are going to record this in two parts. Right now, we are in June of 2025. Specifically, if you want to look at the date, it is June 23rd at 4:00 p.m., Central Time, that we are recording.

[DongWon] We are just past the solstice.

[Mary Robinette] We are just past the solstice. So we're going to record this part about the way we think the year would wind up. Then, at the actual end of the year, we're going to record how the year has actually...

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] Ended. And part of the reason that we decided to do this is because the US has, as we record this, the US has just bombed Iran. And so it's hard to do a kind of cheery, hello, it's the end of the year...

[DongWon] As someone who lives in Los Angeles, this year has gone very smoothly and predictably so far.

[Chuckles]

[DongWon] Nothing surprising has happened, nothing alarming has happened. Very normal.

[Mary Robinette] Yeah. And, so, like, we did one time try to pre-rec... It's like trying to record our end of the year in advance. And then we had to go back and re-record it. But we decided to treat that like a feature and not a bug for this year.

[Howard] Yeah. I think it was just this year that I heard the saying, if you want to make God laugh, tell him all about your plans. And so this is us, testing a joke that's just going to have God in stitches, about how we think 2025 will wrap up for us. And then, in a few months, we'll come back and laugh at ourselves.

[Mary Robinette] Yeah. And part of the thought process that this is... That this is something that will happen to you over the course of your career. We're talking about big global events right now, but over the course of your career, you heard, when Dan was talking about his writing process, and when we were talking... Or when Dan was talking about the business from the craft book, that sometimes you think you've got a plan and you think you know how it's going to go, and then you have to do a reset. So this is kind of like... This is something that it's worth doing when you're listening to this, to think, okay, well, let me think about how I think my next 6 months are going to go, and then see where I am. So...

[Howard] Can I start?

[Mary Robinette] Yeah. Please do, Howard.

[Howard] I am working right now on a bonus story for Schlock Mercenary, Book 19, A Function of Firepower. Which we planned to launch a Kickstarter for later this year. When I say later this year, like, somewhere in the August to October time frame. I don't have exact dates. But the plan for my year is finish this bonus story, finish the last of the sketch editions, the sketch card deliverables for the book 18 project. I just got a lot of pictures to draw for people. And once that's done, I... We've got Gen Con that we're going to do in August. And then this whole book launch project, Kickstarter project, which will take us through to the end of the year. And that is how I'm going to be spending probably 60 to 70% of my productive time. And the balance of it, I'm going to spend noodling on maybe something silly, maybe something spooky, I don't know yet, but I'm going to pick and I have several choices that I like.

[Mary Robinette] I'll go next. So, I'll talk about the plans that I know and then the thing that I'm like maybe.

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] I'm wrapping up edits on a book that I'm going to be handing to my agent. And so what I'm hoping is that when we record this again in December, that I will be able to say, yes, we've sold that book. My agents sending it out to market. But in... There's also an equal possibility that I'll say, well, it's been sent out, I've gotten a number of rejections, or that I'll say, we haven't heard back from anybody. Like, I don't actually know what that's going to look like. I have a new book that is coming out October... That will have come out October 20th...

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] 21st which is a science fiction noir called Saga. Not called Saga. Called Apprehension from Saga. And it's an experiment that they're doing, one of those doubles. And I'm really hoping that people will be excited by it, and that when I come on in December, that everyone, all of you, dear listeners, will have listened to it. But it may also, because it's an experiment, flop. I'm starting drafting a new novel. I'm in the outline phase right now. Again, I hope that by the time we roll around in December, I've actually finished that book. And then, then there's the stuff that I don't know. There's... And I'm going to not go into details about this, but I will say that the Wednesday before we came here, I had a family member enter hospice. But it's also the kind of hospice that could be with us for a while. We're not in crisis yet, we're just getting extra help. So I don't have any idea what the rest of my year is going to look like. And then the world is on fire, and I don't know... Like, my husband and I have been talking about do we need to think about moving out of the country. But we can't... Like, there's a bunch of... There's so many different moving pieces right now. So my own strategy at the moment is just to take things... The old cliche of one day at a time. But it is very much like breaking things down into smaller pieces. What can I do today? To just move forward towards the goals as if I can achieve the goals.

[DongWon] Yeah. For me, I think it's hard to predict my... How are the next 6 months of my life are going to go at any given point in time. But I'm coming out of a period of particular disruption for me. A lot of it brought on to myself by choosing to move across country. But there's just been lots of different things that have managed to disrupt my normal flow of work and my normal process. And so, I'm in a little bit of a mode of rebuilding right now. On the agenting side, really I'm hoping, and this is a cold shot, again, because this is all very, very [garbled] but I'm in a position where I have a little bit more bandwidth then I've had recently. So I'm looking to try and find a couple new people to work with. Take on a couple new clients over the next few months, and would love to see where we're at this fall, if there's something in there that could be placed with a publisher, or at least have the stuff in development. So, expanding my business is one thing I'm really looking at doing. Which is something I haven't done in quite a while. I mean, there's been people I've taken on here and there, when the situation made sense. But I haven't been really actively looking in a minute. So, sort of the back half of this year, being a little bit more focused on starting to see what's out there and sort of see what I'm interested in right now, and trying to find a couple people to work with. So, that's my primary goal. On a personal level, I have a side project, a side creative project that I've been developing for a long time now. It's been in the works for about 2 years. I'm not going to say what it is yet, because I don't think we'll have announced it by the end of the year. We're looking to launch it sometime next year. But a big component of the creative lift is, fingers crossed, if everything goes smoothly, will be happening next month. So that is a thing that is occupying a lot of my mind, is looking at... Heading into that project and doing a lot of the initial wave of that work. And then figuring out, oh, God, what have we done? How do we make this work out?

[Chuckles]

[DongWon] So, on the personal side of my life, this side project is going to encapsulate a lot of my attention and a lot of my focus in terms of creative energy. And then, professionally, continuing to push forward and expand my business a little bit.

[Dan] Awesome. Okay. So I work with Brandon Sanderson, which means that a lot of the projects I'm working on are secret, but it also means that I can't call them secret projects, because that has a very loaded meaning...

[Chuckles]

[Dan] With Brandon's stuff. Because of his giant Kickstarter. And I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression. So I'm going to call them redacted projects.

[laughter]

[Dan] Okay. So, I have redacted project A that... It needs to be finished this summer. If it's not finished by the time we record again, it will be embarrassing and bad for me. Redacted project B, my writing part of it should be done by December. So that should be done as well by the time we record. Redacted project C, if I get a chance to start on it this year, I will be very excited. I don't know if I will. I'm going to go ahead and put a stake in the ground now and say I will start outlining that project before we record again. We'll see if I follow through. Redacted project D is ongoing. I have no idea when my portion of that will be done, but we're working on it. Now, the stuff that I can talk to you about, my own work, we are in the process of finally, years and years later, putting together a print edition of A Night of Blacker Darkness.

[Mary Robinette] Oh, great.

[Dan] Which is my historical vampire comedy. And those should be available soon. I think we're going to make... We're going to get them print on demand sometime this summer, and ebook and such, and then have physical copies that we'll be selling at conventions later in the year, like Nexus and such.

[Howard] By the time this episode airs...

[Mary Robinette] Theoretically.

[Howard] You will have enjoyed the print edition...

[Dan] We certainly hope.

[Howard] Of that. Okay.

[Dan] That's the goal. I've got a YA horror novel that I have been working on for like 6 years. I don't know if I will have time to get to that, because, as I said, there are so many other redacted projects that I'm doing with Brandon. But I would love to be able to get to that one. That one is called The Window That Can Never Be Closed, and it will take more time than I have to finish revisions on it this year. But I want to have started them. So, that's the layout of my next 6 months.

[Erin] Nice. And I will just say that in my spreadsheet, I give all my projects code names.

[Dan] Nice.

[Erin] For two reasons. One, if I ever show anyone the spreadsheet, I'm not breaking NDA, and also so that I can give them silly names.

[laughter]

[Erin] You're saying ABC, and I'm like, what if it was Project Slumgolian...

[laughter]

[Erin] Horatio Alger. Like, it doesn't have to have any reason, just whatever you are looking at that day.

[Mary Robinette] Project Honeysuckle.

[Erin] I cannot remember the other old-timey American...

[Howard] Bamboozle was the one that set us off, as well.

[Dan] Wasn't that Hornswoggle?

[it was Hornswoggle]

[DongWon] We've put in too much time on the Internet before we started to record, and there were many old Americana jokes happening. So...

[Mary Robinette] You can look up honeysuckle on your own.

[Dan] We got a little honey fuggled.

[Chuckles]

[Erin] But I will say that I have several projects going. But I think that the big thing for me is that I'm moving. So I have been in Texas the last 4 years, and in a couple of months, I am moving to the West Coast. And I am just sort of at the beginning of a figure out where I want to live next project. Where I'm staying places three or four months at a time to see what place I want to live, which is a thing you can do when you just have a cat. And so I'm loosely starting on the West Coast and seeing how that goes, and then who knows where I'm going next. Which is really exciting for me, because I think it's sometimes just good to, like, change your context. And that will, like, shift other things that you're doing. I mean, like, there are many reasons to leave Texas. Texas is always Texas-ing on things. But also, I think, for me, a person who grew up in a walk... A really walkable city, New York City and Washington DC, I have missed, in the heat of Texas, being able to, like, walk around. And so I'm trying to find places with a more temperate climate, so that I leave my house and don't become a shut-in workaholic. And so I'm trying to live more centrally in the city and do things that will help me get out of my house and get into the world. And I think that will really help me, like, shake things up personally, if nothing else. And that'll affect all the projects I'm doing, but I think that is the thing that I'm most excited about. The other thing I'm going to put forward is, one is a lie and one is true.

[Chuckles]

[Erin] So the lie is that, like, I will send a newsletter out. I'm not going to do it. But let's say...

[laughter]

[Erin] That I'm going to do it. I might eventually send out one newsletter. And two is that I'd like to get a story sold. So, I want to get a story sold. That I think I can actually do. The newsletter, it's hilarious because every two months, I revise half of the letter to be like, hi, y'all. Coming to you from June. And then I never finish the rest of it. But who knows? Maybe I will surprise myself and in my new context, I will do things that I never thought possible.

[DongWon] I'm tagging on to your newsletter lie. I'm also going to send at least one newsletter...

[laughter]

[DongWon] By the end of the year.

[Mary Robinette] I went to...

[DongWon] I have so many half written drafts.

[Mary Robinette] Like, you're the one who's like everyone should have a newsletter.

[DongWon] I think you should have a newsletter. I never said you have to send it regularly.

[Mary Robinette] And... Yeah.

[Erin] Or at all.

[DongWon] That's absolutely not part of my advice.

[Mary Robinette] I just want our listeners to know that Writing Excuses sends out a newsletter regularly.

[DongWon] Yes.

[Mary Robinette] Which often includes updates from these fine people here...

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] And my newsletter's regular. And do you know how I manage that? I hired people.

[Chuckles]

[Mary Robinette] Because I also have good intentions about newsletters that will never happen.

[Dan] Yeah. Dawn and I looked at our thing at the beginning of June and realized I hadn't sent a newsletter out since February. So...

[Mary Robinette] That sounds bad.

[Dan] I did send one in June.

[Mary Robinette] Yeah. Not nearly as bad.

[Erin] Wow, look at you.[garbled]

[DongWon] I'm so excited.

[Howard] February of 2025?

[Dan] Yes.

[Howard] That's...

[Mary Robinette] That's like not late.

[Howard] You're in great shape.

[laughter]

[Dan] Fine.

[Mary Robinette] All right. So. We are going to take a break now. And when we come back after the break, we will have time traveled to December and it will be the actual end of the year.

[Mary Robinette] [largely inaudible] One of my favorite things to do when I'm writing is to talk to subject matter experts to kind of get new ideas, or just to dig into a topic more deeply. So, I was watching MasterClass, and they've got this class by John Douglas called Think Like an FBI Profiler. And just in the first few minutes, when he was talking about being a young field agent, story ideas just like started to unfold in my head. A lot of times, as a new writer, you don't know where to go to get access to subject matter experts, someone who can tell you this kind of story or introduce you to the sort of skills that this Thinking Like an FBI Profiler is introducing me to, and MasterClass offers that. With MasterClass, you get thousands of bite-sized lessons across 13 categories that can fit into even the busiest of schedules, like, if you're in a hurry. It turns your commute or your workout into a classroom. With audio mode, you can listen to MasterClass lessons anytime, anywhere. Just like you listen to us. Plus, membership comes with bonus class guides and downloadable content to help you get even more out of each lesson. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head off to masterclass.com/excuses for the current offer. That's up to 50% off at masterclass.com/excuses. And, yes, I am going to say it one more time. And, yes, I am going to say it one more time. Masterclass.com/excuses. And then maybe you too can think like an FBI profiler.

[Howard] Hello! We have time traveled the old fashioned way, moving forward in time at the rate of one second per second. You had a 2 minute break, but we had 6 months. It's December of 2025, and we are now recording the final part of our final episode of season 20. In this segment, we're going to check back in with Dan and reflect on how our best laid plans have fared. Speaking of plans, we planned to have Mary Robinette with us for this recording. But she's traveling. Fortunately, she's recorded a nice mini-segment that producer Emma and editor Alex will splice into this episode. So, via Emma and Alex, here is Mary Robinette.

[Mary Robinette] Here we are at the end of 2025, and as you can probably tell, I'm ending the year by getting over a cold. So, I'm going to give you a quick rundown of the things that I mentioned when we recorded before the break. The novel that I said I was wrapping edits on and giving to my agent... Finished those edits. It has not yet sold, it has been shopping around. So, we'll see how that goes. The book tour for Apprehension was actually a lot of fun. I toured with Sam J. Miller. We hit a bunch of cities. Elsie went with me on some of those. People were definitely more excited to see my cat. She didn't go to the actual events, but she was on tour with me, and that actually has been one of the things I did not have on my bingo card at all, was that my cat has gone viral. And I love Elsie, but she is now officially more famous than I am. She has, as we record this, 102,000 followers on Instagram alone, and like 62,000 on Facebook. It is crazy. But it's a fun ride. The novel that I said I was in the process of outlining, I set that aside and I'm working on a novella, actually all about Elsie. Because it feels like a time to take advantage of my cat's virality. So I'm nearly finished with that. I should have that finished in the next day or two. It's only about 3-5,000 words away from the end of that. And then I mentioned a family member was in the hospice. That family member is actually doing much better on hospice. I will tell you, I'll give you the advice that I was given years ago, that if you ever have a doctor that offers hospice, to just say yes immediately. Because it just gets more help, and my family member is actually doing so well on hospice that may graduate from it. Which, on the one hand, yay! On the other hand, it does mean losing some of that additional assistance. But that's basically where I'm at. And, looking forward to the next season.

[Howard] Wow. I really wish I could hear that. I bet it's awesome.

[Dan] Oh. I heard it. It was great.

[Howard] It was awesome?

[Dan] Yeah.

[Howard] It'll provide a brilliant springboard for DongWon, Erin, and I. So, let's do that. I'm going to let DongWon go first.

[DongWon] Thank you. Yeah. I mean, tying right back into what Mary Robinette was saying and just thematically picking up on that, I, before this, we all got a chance to go back and listen to what we actually said 6 months ago. So I got to get back into that, and realize that I had completely forgotten all the goals that I had set for myself. However, in spite of having forgotten it, I remained consistent in that I managed to address most of them, I think. I think the thing...

[Howard] So you forgot you said it, but you did it anyway?

[DongWon] Exactly. So, it must have been honest on some level.

[Howard] Character is who you are when no one's taking notes.

[DongWon] Exactly. So. It's been a very busy back half of the year for me. It's been quite hectic on a number of levels. In terms of the work side, kind of exactly what I'd hoped to do. Took on a couple new clients, which has been very exciting. I haven't sent anything out yet, but those projects are getting prepared to go out early next year. And been able to lay some pre-ground work in terms of talking to some editors, finding some people who are interested. Both these writers are fairly established in different categories. So it's been a really exciting strategic opportunity to figure that out. I also opened to submissions for the first time in a very, very long time. Only in a couple categories, so really just looking for epic fantasy and horror right now. And been getting a ton of queries in that are extraordinarily good. I've requested too many things and have way too much reading right now. But it's fun. It's been really nice to dig into it. And been catching up on some competitive reading, on what's happening out on the market. And just have had a run of like absolute bangers and reading stuff I've been loving, and having a blast. And it's just nice to remember how much I love this genre and how much I love this category, both on the fantasy side and on the horror side. I would love to read some big science fiction next. So I'm on the hunt for one of those. So, yeah, in terms of the work side, it's been going very well, very busy, and kind of filling up my docket for the first half of next year. And then I mentioned I was working on a creative side project. I have continued to jam on that. The big thing I referenced in terms of that is going to be a new podcast. Again, I don't want to talk too much about what it is specifically, yet. But keep an eye on my channel for an announcement sometime in the next couple of months here. But the recording for that went extraordinarily well. Had a great time doing it. It's a very big creative lift. That has been very fun to do. And it's spinning off a side project to the side project, as inevitably happens. So pretty much all of my non-work time has been taken up by those. So, yeah, it's been a very exciting, fulfilling, and fruitful time the past few months. The world continues to be somewhat chaotic, but on a personal level, things are going well.

[Howard] I think it's really cool that you... You... Seriously cool that you managed to forget everything you said you were going to do, but then did it anyway.

[Chuckles]

[Howard] Rhat means that the things that you said came from that deep stone part of your soul...

[DongWon] Yeah.

[Howard] That is immovable... Unmov... Immovable.

[Dan] I'm in the same boat. I could not remember any of the goals I set, and also completed most of them.

[Howard] Oh. Yeah.

[Dan] And in my case, I think it's that I was aiming really low.

[laughter]

[Dan] So it was just easy.

[Howard] Would you like to tell us about it?

[Dan] Sure. I talked, 5 minutes ago when you heard the other segment, about redacted projects A,B,C, and D. And the good news is A, B, and C are more or less exactly where I expected them to be at this point in the year. Redacted project B, I should have turned in a revision a week and a half ago, and I did not. And that probably won't happen until January, and I have come to peace with that.

[Chuckles]

[Dan] I don't know if my editor has. But. Okay. Redacted project D? I genuinely have no idea what I was talking about. This is the problem...

[DongWon] Those redacted projects. This is the code name project...

[Dan] Yeah.

[Erin] This is why I give them code names, so that theoretically...

[Dan] Yeah.

[Erin] That [garbled]

[DongWon] Do you remember what Hornswoggle was?

[Erin] Always. Probably? [garbled]

[Dan] Yeah. Rohisla. There's several gems. I can't remember how many gems Rohisla had. But... Seven? Whatever. I have no idea what secret project redacted Project 7 may have been. So let's all pretend either I finished it or it didn't matter. Because I know that no one at Dragon Steel was expecting any other project from me, other than the three I'm aware of. So, hooray. I also said that I was going to start revising my horror novel, my YA horror, which I have not done. I might try to do a little of that before the end of the year, just so I can say that I did it. But, no, I haven't had a chance to get to that. But, yeah, other than that, I think the goals have mostly been met. And on top of that, I am doing two... I'm actually doing three gaming retreats next year, one writing retreat, a bunch of other stuff. I'm going to so many cons. I grew tired of traveling back when I was doing Comic Con constantly, and then Covid came along, and I didn't have to do cons anymore. And, next year, I'm doing a bunch of cons, and I'm not entirely happy about it, but that will be my next year.

[DongWon] Yeah, I got tired just hearing all this.

[Chuckles]

[Dan] Yes.

[Erin] You all. I was like, ooh, fun, going to cons.

[DongWon] Erin, you have a con endurance that I simply do not. But, anyways.

[Dan] I'm actually going to take this moment to pitch one of my gaming retreats. So, next year, in the summer of 26, first week of July, I am doing a Mistborn RPG week-long event. Where every attendee gets a seat at a five person table with a professional GM, and we'll play through a Mistborn campaign that I am writing along with Lydia Suen who is the lead designer on the Mistborn RPG and Kara... I think Friedman, I don't remember Kara's last name, and I'm sorry. But she's awesome, too. So, anyway, everyone, come to that. It's called Campaign Supernova.

[DongWon] Hell, yes.

[Erin] Nice. I hope there's mist there, just in general. [garbled]

[Dan] That'll be my job as the overseer. Go around to the tables and gently mist them all.

[DongWon] Just use a handheld machine for the whole thing.

[Howard] The new mist bottle RPG.

[Dan] If you can see the other tables, you get your money back.

[Howard] Okay. Can I make Erin go next?

[Erin] Ah, sure. Yeah. I...

[Howard] You've got some exciting news. Right?

[Erin] I...

[Howard] [garbled] like to tell us you're exciting news?

[Erin] Sure. I mean, let's start with what I said I was going to do. My favorite thing about looking back at the transcript... I didn't listen to it, but I looked at it, and I said that some of the things that I was saying were lies, and it was a lie. So I said I'm going to lie and say I'm going to get a newsletter out, and it was just as much a lie as I knew it would be...

[Chuckles]

[Erin] When I said it. So...

[DongWon] Oh, yeah. My newsletter's back! I've been sending newsletters. So...

[Dan] Yeah. I've seen several.

[DongWon] This is me thanking you for sending my newsletter.

[Dan] From you.

[Erin] There you go. And I think when I said I was lying, you were like, I'm going to shame you and put out a newsletter. Or at least that's how it felt.

[DongWon] [garbled] Too.

[Erin] Yeah. Shaming Erin, side quest achieved. Mist now. Feeling misty. So, I did that, and I also moved. So that was a big one. Which is that I moved to the West Coast from Texas. I said I was going to do it, and I did do it. And, this is where I think the second lie comes in, which is the lie I'm always telling myself, which is that the amount of time something takes is somehow proportional to, like, how many syllables it is. Like, I'm like, move. You could say that so fast. So therefore, it's like a really small process. It's only four tiny letters. But it turns out moving is in fact long and takes a lot of time and energy, and I'm still surrounded by boxes and furniture that I need to assemble. And so my thing that I thought would be true, which was finishing a story, is also a lie.

[Chuckles]

[Erin] Because of my lie of thinking how quickly I would be able to just do all of the stuff that I was going to do, even though I was taking on this extra work. So what I'm hoping for 2026 is to, like, learn the underlying truth, which is that it's better to actually be as honest as you can be with how much things are going to take. Like, I'm a big fan recently of thinking about systems versus individuals, like, a lot of times we put things on ourselves, we say like, if I was just better and faster and stronger and worked harder, this thing would be done, versus like moving is a systemic thing that is going to change everything around me, and I don't know how it's going to affect me. And, like sometimes you just can't outrun this... You can't outrun the train. And the train is your life. And so trying to figure out sort of what is the train and what's the part that I'm...

[DongWon] Yeah.

[Erin] Running, like what's my individual effort and what's me actually dealing with the world is something that I'm going to try to figure out in this new location. So I think that's sort of the biggest thing.

[DongWon] As someone...

[Erin] Biggest... Yeah?

[DongWon] As someone who has moved three times in the last 18 months...

[Dan] Oh, wow.

[DongWon] I cannot overstate how disruptive moving is to every part of your life. So I think I had to learn kind of the same lesson too, of just, like, getting hit by three trains in a row. Right?

[Erin] Oh, no.

[DongWon] It just made things very hard to accomplish for a second there. So, all sympathy to you for this period as you're getting back on your feet here.

[Dan] I haven't recorded with you folks since June or July, whenever we did the other one, and I forgot that you all bring such wise nuggets of knowledge. I was just making jokes and telling people to come to my retreat, and here Erin has this valuable lesson for everybody.

[Chuckles]

[Erin] It was dark under the train, I had time to sleep.

[DongWon] Yeah.

[Chuckles]

[Erin] Not time to write, but time to think.

[Howard] Those nuggets of wisdom, they're actually railway gravel.

[DongWon] Yeah.

[Chuckles]

[DongWon] [garbled] Crushed up wisdom.

[Erin] Also, that kind of goes hard. Crushed up wisdom. That was actually the name of, like, a perfume or a band or... I have no idea what. A strain of some sort of drug?

[Howard] Erin, are you going to tell us about a new thing?

[Dan] You're going to do a line of crushed up wisdom?

[Chuckles]

[Erin] Every meal, I do some crushed up wisdom, and finish my time.

[DongWon] I've got [garbled] for you right here.

[Erin] That while... So I moved randomly, it had nothing to do with anything. But after I moved, because sometimes this is the way the world works, I ended up getting a job that will keep me here on the West Coast, in the Pacific Northwest, for a while, which is that I joined Dungeons and Dragons as a game designer. So I'll be working for Wizards of the Coast. I will take this opportunity to say that absolutely nothing I say reflects on Wizards of the Coast. If they thought it would, they would not have hired me. Please take everything I say... Don't go asking them for crushed up wisdom, they don't have it.

[DongWon] I'm so excited for the 5e module, the Gems of Rohisla...

[Chuckles]

[DongWon] That'll come out in 27.

[Erin] How quickly can I get myself fired? Speed run, 2026. But one of the reasons that I'm really excited about this, other than its general excitement, is that it actually consolidates a lot of the work that I was doing for many different people. And I'm hoping, like, gives me time to actually relax a little bit more. Maybe even play some of the games and read some of the books from my backlog, and actually just take it a little easier. And I will say that it's, like, feels weird. It feels weird, and this is my last piece of crushed up wisdom before I run out of my supply. But, like, when you've been running downhill in real life and you hit a straight, it feels like there's all this laid on you. And it's not because you're not running fast, it's just that, like, there's a feeling of going downhill that's a little bit out of control. And when you're back in control, it can feel odd, your body doesn't feel like it normally does running a straight path. And so a lot of what I'm doing now is getting used to what is it like to run a straight path, where I'm not chasing things downhill, and then how do I do that without it feeling like weights, but instead something that I'm in control of and where I can decide where I should go next. So...

[DongWon] I love that. Yeah. I'm really excited for you in this next phase of things.

[Howard] I think that means it's my turn.

[it is]

[Howard] I said that I was going to finish some sketch editions and some sketch cards and a bonus story. And then start work on some spooky stuff. Short version, I am much further behind than I wanted to be. And so the spooky stuff remains purely head canon. But I finished all the sketch editions. I finished all the sketch cards. And I'm still working on the bonus story. I realized that when I'm restricted on page count, and I want to tell a story that has, like, some important things that need to be gotten across, sometimes every panel on the page has to do heavy lifting. And artist Howard is yelling at script writer Howard for teeing this up. Because I did not...

[Dan] Yeah.

[Howard] I did not make my job easy. The big change, I think, during the last 6 months, my former boss's boss's boss, back when I worked at Novell, Eric Schmidt was the CEO. And he went on to be CEO at Google, which was a much better gig for him. He recently said, in an interview, in order to be productive, stop doing things to prevent yourself from being bored. If you've got like a little mobile game that you noodle on or doomsday scrolling or whatever, these... And he was talking about the mindless sorts of things that we will do because we don't like boredom. He said don't do those. Let yourself be bored, so that you can be creative, so that you can be productive. And I took that to heart, and hard quit everything. There were several games that I played regularly, both mobile and PC. And I just stopped. I did say goodbye before I left...

[Chuckles]

[Howard] And explained to people, it's not you, it's me. And it's because I have too much else to do and I need to make the time for it. And, honestly, it's been wonderful. I can't recommend it to everybody, because I need people to read webcomics.

[laughter]

[DongWon] Intentionally cultivating boredom is incredibly powerful, though. I am so...

[Howard] So, so powerful.

[DongWon] It doesn't mean you have to quit everything cold turkey. But, like, just making space in your schedule to sit and be bored, I think can be just so generative.

[Dan] Well, and we learned the lesson on long car trips, road trips, with my kids. We used to try and entertain them and keep them occupied. And it was just a nightmare, they were always impatient. And one year for family vacation, we're just like, you know what? No. There's not going to be any movies in the car, we're not going to hand you tablets, you're just going to be bored. And the road trips have been so wonderful ever since. Because they learned how to entertain themselves.

[DongWon] Yeah.

[Dan] It was great. They learned how to think their own thoughts.

[DongWon] Terrible.

[Howard] Yep. Anyway. So, what does my 2027 hold? Well, I guess I gotta finish the bonus story. I gotta finish the stuff that I said I was going to do in 2026. But I'm optimistic. I think it's going to work. I'm not getting younger. This... The whole, oh, if I could only work harder or longer or faster? Yeah, you know what, the days when I worked longer, harder, and faster than I work now are behind me, and I need to admit that. And I have. And I need to come to peace with that. And I haven't. But, give me some time.

[Howard] So, there's our report on how our mid 2025 projections for the rest of our 2025 worked. So I think it's time for us to send you home with homework.

[Dan] Oh, yeah, baby. Here's my homework. In the time since we recorded last, I discovered that there is apparently a Twisted Metal TV show. And I binged both seasons of it. And I adore it. I love it so much. In particular, season 2. That show is able to combine ridiculous comedy with over the top violence with genuinely touching and poignant human emotions in a way that you rarely ever see anywhere. And so my homework is go watch at least some of Twisted Metal. Be forewarned, it swears a lot. There's a lot of gore in it. So maybe you only watch the first little bit, if that's not your cup of tea, then I'm going to recommend... I've recently gotten into interactive fiction, The Book of Hungry Names is absolutely phenomenal. So one of these two things. Go and consume that media and learn what you can from them. Because they are master storytellers at doing very different tightropes of different emotions all at the same time. I love them. Go do that.

[Howard] Oh. One more bit of homework. Your hosts have had many opportunities to thank Dan and to wish him well. We want you to have that same opportunity. We've created a publicly accessible Patreon post, thank you to Dan Wells, for you, our listeners, to share your thoughts. Things you've learned from Dan, appreciation you wish to express, even your favorite stories about Dan... I'm not allowed to call them danecdotes, and so I won't. Go to patreon.com...

[DongWon] [garbled] you said it.

[Howard] And yet I said it. Go to patreon.com/writingexcuses and then look for thank you to Dan Wells.

[Dan] Oh. Now I'm supposed to say you're out of excuses. Now go tell me how awesome I am.

[Chuckles]